Archived Content - Wurm's ES BBS 1997-2011
Crystal Veil 25 May 2010, 10:29
To Puffin and Cactus Jack,
today's photo shoot with the +5 model went along fine. She did not get cross eyed and she had no problems posing in my glasses otherwise. Her portraits will appear within a week on my weblog. She kindly offered to be back sometime in June for another photo shoot.
Thanks again to both of you for the good advice!
Crystal Veil 23 May 2010, 21:32
To Puffin,
thank you for this reassuring information. I have some four dozen glasses available for the model. The Rx of the glasses is between +5 and +8. So what she will see through the glasses is essentially what a mild myope would see without her glasses on. I experimented with this in some of my previous photo shoots, with middle aged myopic models. Bringing in some glasses with a milder prescription than their own Rx gives the eyes some relaxation. The distance between model and camera is only about one meter so the model needs to accomodate her eyes about one diopter which can be tiring for models with presbyopia. Hence the milder presription. I work fast and each pair of glasses is no longer than one minute on the model's nose. Every five or ten minutes I tell the model to take a short break so that she can put her own glasses on for more relaxation. None of my models ever complained about dizzyness of headaches during or after her photo shoot. But tomorrow's model may have more of a risk and that's why I asked for advice here. I intend to do the same routine tomorrow and will inform you and Cactus Jack on this thread about the outcome after the photo shoot. Thanks again to both of you. Much appreciated!
Puffin 23 May 2010, 17:06
Crystal Veil:
I think it quite unlikely you'll have a problem (the situation I mentioned is very rare). I look forward to seeing the results. I'm assuming that myopic glasses won't be appropriate in this shoot.
4eyes 23 May 2010, 15:03
Hi... Jack, I like to hear you in every thread.
Here's Anderson from São Paulo.
Hello Emma & Wei.
It is funny to see this thread still up, I thought it was over…
Yes, there are vision training for crossing eyes. To my daddy were indicated many Clinics here in São Paulo, where you can find people who do that job. I’ve done that for over 6 months. My eyes cross badly due to few reasons as I am aphakic, that means no internal lenses and I have few eyes paralyzed muscles. That is I mean, according to MD. So my “dad” wondered maybe “Therapy Vision training” would work out? I tell you I’d hated it very much and because results were almost none I’d drop it out. I can’t even stand an eye occluding… hehehe. My daddy says my eyes crosses even more if I am without glasses and he hates it, so Crystal, it is very likely that that happens. Maybe, hum… if she gets proper eyeglasses or contacts then the problem will be solved, I think. But therapy vision works in many many cases, so I think you Crystal could if you would, talk to her about it.
Hope things works out fine on the pictures session.
Please, I’m sorry about my bad English.
Anderson’s here.
Crystal Veil 23 May 2010, 12:16
To Puffin and Cactus Jack,
thanks to both of you for your answers.
I'll keep my fingers crossed (for the model) that the photo shoot will succeed.
Cactus Jack 23 May 2010, 08:04
Crystal Veil,
To amplify Puffin's excellent answer: The tendency for the eyes to cross in SOME under corrected hyperopes is caused by the focusing effort interacting in the brain with the eye muscle convergence mechanism. Myopes typically do not have THAT problem unless they are significantly over corrected which is optically and physiologically the same as having hyperopia. Myopes can have problems with crossed eyes or wall-eyes (esotropia or exotropia), but it generally does not have the same cause as the hyperope's problem above and it cannot be corrected by changing the sphere Rx.
C.
Puffin 23 May 2010, 03:58
Crystal Veil,
In general terms, more muscular effort in the eyes is interpreted by the nervous system as a need to turn the eyes a little more inward. For some people there is wider window of cause before the effect of eyes turning in starts. It seems this lady may be one of those who have more sensitivity to eye muscle effort that others, and obviously having slightly inadequate corrective lenses puts them on the edge of this response. Whether this applies to the other side of the window of cause/effect I cannot tell you. Probably nobody has tried to find out what effect an extra +3 or +5 of correction will have on her convergence (it is not unknown for myopes to have an opposite problem, getting slightly wall-eyed because they don't have enough minus.)
I'm assuming that whatever problems she has, they go away fairly quickly with the right prescription? If so perhaps you could lend her a couple of pairs of slightly stronger glasses to see what happens?
Crystal Veil 23 May 2010, 00:30
To Cactus Jack.
I need some advice on a similar "cross eyed" problem as discussed here. The day after tomorrow I will do a photo shoot with a model. Her own prescription is as follows:
L: sph +5.00; cyl -1.00; axis 10
R: sph +5.00; cyl -0.75; axis 165
She is in her early or mid thirties and hyperopia is in her entire family.
She explained to me that she gets cross eyed when she is wearing glasses with a prescription that is no longer accurate. Other family members have the same problem. Nevertheless, she is interested in doing the photo shoot.
I understood that she had an increase recently and I assume that her problem arises when glasses are not strong enough. Am I on the safe side when she poses in glasses slightly stronger than her own prescription?
I would appeciate if you can throw some light on the matter.
Cactus Jack 02 May 2010, 11:53
Emma,
It depends on the problem and the individual. In Val's situation, he did the exercises every day for several weeks and now only needs to do the exercises periodically.
Your friend needs to consult with some one who specializes in visual training. Putting off doing something about the problem only makes it harder to fix in the future. My I ask your friend's age?
C.
Emma 02 May 2010, 10:29
I don't think my friend has any problem with her vision. Her eyes just tend to cross and she's more concerned with how that looks than anything. She's going to look into vision training anyway. Do you have to keep up the vision training every day?
Val 28 Apr 2010, 22:23
Emma, Cactus Jack is correct, vision training is better done by professionals. There are different sets of eye exercises for different eye problems. In my case, some 16 years ago, a eye technician taught me to do at home some set of exercises, because my eye were turning very little inward. I did it every day for 4-5 weeks and the problem was gone. The cause was uncorrected hyperopia. From time to time I do one of the exercises again, probably 3-4 consecutive days in 6 months, but I wear glasses full time, so the original cause of the problem is gone too.
Cactus Jack 28 Apr 2010, 14:37
Emma,
Yes there is, but it is not very effective if there is some underlying cause such as hyperopia or muscle control problems.
A typical cause is uncorrected hyperopia and the act of accommodating causes the eyes to converge. If you friend has some uncorrected hyperopia and does not want to wear glasses, she may find that some plus contacts may help the problem.
In the US, some optometrists specialize in vision therapy and they offer training, but she should not try visual training without a complete evaluation.
C.
Emma 28 Apr 2010, 11:54
Yeah, is there any vision training for crossed eyes? My friend eyes tend to cross. She says she doesn't have any problem with her vision and doesn't want glasses so I wonder if there's any vision training that would work?
Wei 27 Apr 2010, 15:09
Is vision training of crossed eyes? My eyes is crossed reading and wear mysodisc
Emma 15 Apr 2010, 11:08
There's some pinhole glasses you get for vision training aren't there? Not that they would work for my high RX but they're supposed to work with low RXs I think.
Wei 12 Apr 2010, 14:25
Is any vision trianing for hi myopia? I very many rx and want acuty improve
Leon 28 Aug 2008, 17:28
Dont worry the rocket launcher will kill the tyrant in one hit... just be patient.
4eyes 10 May 2008, 09:02
Hi... you all,
I've done TV for four months last year, but the darn thing didn't any good for me at all. In fact, it felt like I was worsening at each time I went into VT. I'm some far sighted and I have strabismus and others eyes issue. But I think things are getting worsen for me lately to the point it's affecting my sports activities, mostly soccer I love so much, somehow I found that when I am distracted my eyes go far from my glasses lenses view as if my glasses were not working. I don't know if that makes any sense, but I am still scare going back to TV again.
Now, That's me saying so.
See ya all
Cactus Jack 09 May 2008, 19:21
Tucker,
Post your age, occupation, and where you live on the Induced Myopia thread and I'll give you some suggestions.
C.
Pauline 09 May 2008, 01:21
When i was younger i had exercise to help with my squint, not sure if they done any good, i still have it.
08 May 2008, 17:42
See the Induced Myopia thread. In short: if you're able to see through stronger minus glasses than needed, you may be able to induce some myopia after wearing them all the time.
Tucker 08 May 2008, 17:33
I've never worn glasses, but I want to. How can I make my vision worse enough to wear glasses?
wil 18 May 2006, 00:03
Has anyone currently found or using any eye improvement device that works?
Thanks
Wil
SK 25 Apr 2006, 12:48
I had a one-time trial use on Eye PM few days ago. One eye down 2 lines and the other 1 line immediately after the trial and my eyes never felt so good for the rest of the day. But I didn't purchase it as it was very expensive, about $650. I need to have some assurance the device really works. Now, the improvement has diminished. Hope FreeDive will feedback. SK
Wil 19 Apr 2006, 04:01
Hi Freedive,
Please share with me your experience with this ipm device, it's really working?
Thanks
Wil
TC 19 Mar 2006, 18:17
Hi freedive57
I'm wondering is this PE device effective for your myopia? Thanks.
TC
freedive57 05 Jan 2006, 02:05
I wanted to share my experience with purchasing a vision trainer. On eBay it's item number 5646696594. Look in the box and a green LED moves toward and away from the eye, exercising accomodation and convergence at the same time (there are prisms or mirrors or something to double the image). I have no connection to the seller of this tool except as a customer.
Their brochure says:
"The Eye P.M. is a visual exercise training device base on binocular fusion theory, auto focal accommodation principle and eye muscle relaxation format. The user's eyes follow the nano light that move fore and back to recover the eye muscle elasticity, improve the focusing ability and the refractive system Thus, counteract eye refractive errors that lead to eye defects."
THe delivery was timely. I've only just started using the unit.
The principle by which it works seems similar to the Vision Freedom training of a few years back (the vendor has disappeared). I got results with that system (reduced myopia) but didn't follow through with it.
Bruce
presbyopia_23 14 Nov 2005, 22:24
dont think thats the case. I guess it just happens by itself for everyone, some sooner, some later
-- 14 Nov 2005, 16:09
Presbyopia 23:
Do you think you have been overcorrected in the past? Do you think this might have something to do with your current trouble at near?
presbyopia_23 13 Nov 2005, 21:16
I think my vision is really improving! I can see the 20/50 line quite easy and can still make out the 20/40 line but its indistinct at times. This is with only -4.25 diopters of correction! Things from 1 meter are perfectly clear and even from 1.5 meters pratically clear
presbyopia_23 10 Nov 2005, 06:08
best corrected vision. You mentioned yours is 20/20 with contacts, 20/25 with glasses due to minification. Mines in the 20/30 range but in bright light I can make out some of the 20/25 and at night its 20/40 in the worse right eye due to high order abberations and irregular astigmastim.
Emily 08 Nov 2005, 21:00
What does BCVA stand for? I know CVA is corrected and UVA is uncorrected. I never came across BCVA. Thanks.
presbyopia_23 08 Nov 2005, 20:54
VERY good BCVA for -10.5 diopters! The 20/20 line would be about the size of 20/16.5 with your contacts. This means youd easily see 20/20 with contacts and possibily a letter or two on the 20/15!
Do you think I am experiencing possible problems with my retina due to moderate myopia? Thats what two doctors think. I think its my irregular astigmastim to blame for it. I can improve my vision from 20/30 to 20/25 in each eye with the pinhole effect which means its the irregular astigmastim part. I wonder what 20/20 vision looks like, let alone better than that!
arent you worried about your UCVA getting worse and worse? also what about future retina problems?
Emily 08 Nov 2005, 19:58
I can still make out the 20/20 line with glasses or contacts, but I know if my glasses get much stronger, the 20/20 line will go away. I'm prepared to live with that.
presbyopia_23 08 Nov 2005, 19:51
"When my distance vision gets blurry, as it does after 6 months or so,I go for an exam and get new glasses that restore sharp vision."
I used to do that too but everytime I bumped my pescription up to give me a plano outcome, my eyes would just get -.25 or -.5 diopters worse in short time. Then they would remain stable like that for quite a while. I believe this was pseudomyopia which eventurally became real myopia as my eyeball got longer. Ive also noticed things become extra blurry after wearing strong glasses allday. about 6 months back, I measured -5.5 in the worse left eye. Im probably -5 now in that eye and a bit less in the right. I may still have a bit more pseudomyopia that will slowly resolve. This is why natural vision improvement can reduce myopia. I doubt itll make one plano if they have more than a diopter or two of myopia though. However I would be very happy to get down to -4 which is what I was when I was 16 or 17. I want to get intacs to eat out another -2.5 to -3 diopters so ill be around -2 diopters. Since I have mild presbyopia, I dont mind a little myopia since I wont need reading glasses then.
you see 20/25 with glasses in the -10 range. whats your contact pescription and do you see 20/20 in full or part with them?
Emily 08 Nov 2005, 19:42
Presbyopia_23:
What I don't understand is this: If being undercorrected is supposed to retard your myopia, then why does my vision keep getting worse even when I don't immediately get new glasses? I usually get an exam when my vision reaches 20/40, which takes 6-8 months usually from my last exam. Why don't my eyes stop when they reach 20/25 or 20/30? They just keep getting worse until I can't avoid getting stronger glasses anymore. Maybe that's where the rapidly progressive myopia part kicks in.
presbyopia_23 08 Nov 2005, 19:31
I understand the things I miss out by having less than BCVA. However this is only for distance. There is just no point wearing strong glasses at home, especially since I use the computer alot, I see better anyway with weaker glasses and my eyes dont tire as much. I feel that I would miss out more if my eyes keep getting worse. There is the issue of spectacle minification(contacts can fix that)(if you can tolerate them, I cant)(contacts have risks) theres also the issue of my retina getting stretched which can led to problems sooner or later and result in loss of BCVA. Theres the issue of being really helpless without glasses. My grandmother is legally blind in one eye due to a retina tear and I dont think she even has much myopia! Id rather go with very slightly blurry vision than end up more and more myopic and permaently lose vision or even go legally blind.
My BCVA is a sharp 20/30 in the left eye and a blurry 20/30 in the right. I blame glasses minification for the loss of half a line and irregular astigmastim for the rest. 20/50 isnt bad, especially when im 20/500 without my -4.25 glasses! Theres not much difference between 20/30 BCVA and 20/50 I get by wearing slightly underpowered glasses. Sometimes the optometrist will say "your fine, you dont need new glasses" when hes like -.5 diopters undercorrected. This ensures his myopia will slow its progression and instead of updating every year, he can do it every other year.
Emily 08 Nov 2005, 17:20
Presbyopia_23:
What you're not considering is that you miss out on a lot when you don't see well. I like having good vision, which I can only attain with glasses or contacts. When my distance vision gets blurry, as it does after 6 months or so,I go for an exam and get new glasses that restore sharp vision. If this means that my glasses will acquire an extra few mm of thickness over a few years, it's OK. I have never promoted "induced myopia," but neither have I tried to prevent my myopic progression by sacrificing good vision.
presbyopia_23 08 Nov 2005, 16:55
We need to get more people to post here!
read below for some tips.
they should. Theres a thread where people actually induce more myopia. I read it and just do the opposite of that. Bump my pescription down from -5 to -4.25 for 24/7 wear. around the house I bump it down even further to -3.25. For eating and reading I go bare eye. For reading, you will want an undercorrection of -2.5 to -4 diopters. For computer work youll want -1 to -1.75 undercorrection. Ditto for going around the house. for 24/7 usage, you can take -.5 to -1 undercorrection. Sash your full power glasses in your car to use just for driving. Do you ever squint? I hear its a bad habit that places strain on your eyes. I just move closer or tilt my glasses. So far I have achieved anywhere from -.5 to -1 diopter improvement in my vision. I remember I used to be -5.75 in the left eye 2 years ago. Now I can see nearly as well with -4.75(same glasses, but right lense)id say about half a line worse so -5 makes sense for me. There is even a thread on natural vision improvement on the BBS. I will post there too, check it out guys if you are interested.
If you are a low myope, try to go without glasses as much as you can.
For everyone else, wear weaker glasses than you need. Things will still be clear from near and intermediate but you will greatly reduce accomodation which results in myopia progression. Do the opposite of those trying to induce more myopia
woodframes 07 Oct 2005, 21:29
Good day,
I am a maker of hand carved wooden glasses, each being specific in design and construction to the desires of the customer. I personally pick all my woods to ensure uniqueness and quality. If anyone is interested in a one in a kind pair of eyewear, feel free to contact me as we could discuss further the possibilities of custom wooden frames.
Scott Urban
8hhhhhhhh8@gmail.com
Wei 10 Sep 2005, 05:03
I read all posts on thread and see I not only person suffer attack for mention of vision training!
Wei 09 Aug 2005, 00:08
Presbyopia, you technqe sound very good. Have you improve vision yet?
presbyopia_23 08 Aug 2005, 17:05
One good theory on vision improvement addresses pseudomyopia which is ciliary muscle spasms. What this means is that you are accomodating at all times where you should not be. I read the diary of one woman who said most myopes have trouble fully relaxing their ciliary muscles and she improved 1.25 diopters by training her vision and relaxing the ciliary muscles so she was doing zero accomodation from a distance. It is questionable if you can reverse the enlongation of your axil eye, eg. enlongation of eyeball but at least you can stop it from getting worse with exercises and even improve some :)
Wei 07 Aug 2005, 02:52
Thank you leelee! I interst in Bates techique. I also interst that myopicness is overcorrect i hope my vision not made worse from this! I have so many problem seeing I fear I not able to wear weaker glasses but I research more.
leelee 06 Aug 2005, 12:48
I think most mainstream vision training relates to problems of convergence and eye teaming and possible problems with accommodation. It provides exercises to train your brain and eye muscles to better coordinate to overcome imbalances or tendencies to drift in or out.
There is also the "Bates" method of vision training which is based on relaxing your visual system - and makes the assumption that most myopic people are over-corrected, so it encourages your to wear weaker glasses. There is probably some validity to this since a hyperope typially can't wear their full correction until their system relaxes either.
Wei 06 Aug 2005, 12:01
I very interested in vision training. As many you know i have very high rx and concern of lose of aciuty as myopic progress. Some you like high rx I think but i find increase problem with vision. I fear vision traing only use with low rx but i wonder if myopic could be redress somehow. I try techniques but seem to affect. I read of use of plus lens but guess this of of little use to me. I hopeful of improvement with myodisc and contact soon. If you have low rx should concren with vision training i think.
presbyopia_23 06 Jul 2005, 13:28
wow no new posts in forever? Please give me some advice, I dont want to be -5 I want to improve to -4 or better yet -3
Judy 10 Dec 2004, 19:14
Although I have no experience with optical4less but I heard a lot of bad thing about that merchant.
Julian 05 Dec 2004, 05:40
Bruce: be reasonable. Francine's post has been there since May. It's just that Customer has chosen a funny place to push optical4less.
Love and kisses, Jules.
Bruce 05 Dec 2004, 03:57
Boring, opinionated Francine I mean.
Bruce 05 Dec 2004, 03:56
omg it's back......
Customer 04 Dec 2004, 11:32
Have you people ever bought anything online but never receive it? If you don't, try optical4less.com. They are the one.
Francine 19 May 2004, 13:01
Management of Progressive Myopia:
An interesting article by Dr Paul Harris, OD:
http://www.babousa.org/SECO%202003%20Management%20of%20Myopia.pdf
Francine Eisner 14 Feb 2004, 19:56
IMO Eyescene is a very interesting bulletin board. I enjoy coming here to learn and also to post about Vision Training.
This particular thread is about Vision Training, not general subjects. It would therefore be in the best interests of everyone if posters here kept to the subject.
Thanks and regards,
Francine
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/focus_on_vision_training/
D-W-V 14 Feb 2004, 14:43
Well, that isn't much sphere, but that 1 D of cylinder could make text a little blurry. So, you should try wearing glasses for reading and see if it makes enough difference.
Guido 14 Feb 2004, 11:10
Windowpanes.
GLCK 14 Feb 2004, 10:11
What is the recommendation for wear with that prescription
Guido 14 Feb 2004, 06:54
-1.00, cyl +1.25 same as +0.25 -1.25 X 130
-0.75 sph, +1.00 cyl and axis 120
+0.25 -1.00 X 30
GLCK 14 Feb 2004, 06:11
What does this prescripton convert to.
Prescript is sph -1.00, cyl +1.25, axis 40 that is for right eye and left eye is -0.75 sph, +1.00 cyl and axis 120
Francine 22 Jan 2004, 14:51
BOOK SUGGESTION: "VISUAL FITNESS, 7 MINUTES TO BETTER EYESIGHT AND BEYOND," by Dr David Cook, OD, FCOVD
I have just received a review copy of a book called "Visual Fitness, 7 Minutes to Better Eyesight and Beyond," by Dr David Cook, OD, FCOVD. It is a wonderful book for the lay person (which almost all of us are) and it sets up suggestions for
improving vision in ways that I know about and sincerely believe in.
Among other things, Dr Cook gives an overview of the history of VT. He gives exercises that are different from the ones I suggest on FOVT, and they are extremely useful VT-type
exercises. I am suggesting his book because it packed full of useful info, and true to my own beliefs it does not suggest that you can automatically throw away your glasses, or that you can really do VT without a trained VTOD as advisor. Dr Cook merely
states, and backs up his statements, that you all have the capacity to improve your vision.
Dr Cook's book will be available for purchase on February 4, 2004, so I guess you'll be able to get it fom Barnes & Noble or Amazon.com.
Here is a general outline of its contents:
Introduction
1 - What is Visual Fitness and How May it Be Affecting Your Life?
2 - Your First Step: The Visual Fitness Self-Assessment
3 - Visual Fitness Skill I: Clear - Sight
How"Little" Can You See?
4 - Visual Fitness Skill II: Big - Sight
How "Big" Can You See?
5 - Visual Fitness Skill III: Deep - Sight
How Much Depth Can You See?
6 - Visual Fitness Skill IV: Strong - Sight
How Long Can You See?
7 - Visual Fitness Skill V: Quick -Sight
How Fast Can You See?
8 - Visual Fitness Skill VI: Smart -Sight
Seeing With the Mind's Eye
9 - Visual Fitness Skill VII: Sports - Sight
Keeping Your Seeing on the Ball
10 - Your Visual Fitness Workouts: Organizing for Success
11 - Visual Fitness Trainers: Who are they? Where did they come
from? When should you visit one?
12 - Breaking the Sight Barrier: Seeing with the power of choice
Appendix A: Finding a Visual Fitness Coach
Appendix B: Research on Vision Therapy
Bibliography
...............................
Cheers,
Francine
"Focus On Vision Training" Newsgroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/focus_on_vision_training/
Francine Eisner 17 Jan 2004, 17:02
Thanks, leelee. Do you happen to remember what your vision problem was originally?
You know, I think VT needs to be done regularly at home even if a full course of office training has been given. For myself, certainly, if I didn't do this I would backslide quite a bit. I don't need to practice every day; a couple of times a week usually does it.
Cheers,
Fran
leelee 17 Jan 2004, 15:46
I did VT years ago, and at the time it was $40./session. Since I was an adult paying for it myself we working it out that I would come once every 2 weeks and they gave me exercises to do at home in the meantime. I think it lasted about 3 months and the results were very good - I was suddenly able to read for long periods of time with a very low prescription. I'd say the benefits remain today, but deminished.
Francine Eisner 16 Jan 2004, 20:04
It varies but I think it usually costs from $50 -$70 per visit. Usually VT is once or twice a week to start, and an evaluation of progress is made after 12 weeks. A typical course of VT is 6-9 months, depending on the patient's condition and ease of progress.
Sometimes VT is covered by health insurance, sometimes not. Sometimes the VTOD will wrestle with your insurance company and get them to pay even when they object. By law, insurance companies are really not allowed to refuse to pay for VT unless this is specifically mentioned in their literature.
Hope that helps. I think I already posted places to find a VTOD in your area.
Cheers,
Francine
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/focus_on_vision_training/
guest 16 Jan 2004, 18:30
how much does vision training usually cost?
Francine Eisner 16 Jan 2004, 16:57
Hi Suzanne,
It might be possible. You have to go to a VTOD first, and get a comprehensive eye exam. If you get a course of VT there will be an evaluation after 3 months or so. You'll know by then if it is working, and how well it is working.
Keep in mind that my vision was much worse than yours when I started VT, and it worked really well for me. I haven't worn glasses for years.
You can find a VTOD in your area here:
Cheers,
Francine
Francine Eisner 16 Jan 2004, 16:54
Great, Doc, then I'll ask you a question. So what would the effective power of these lenses be?
OD: -1.50, -0.25 x 115
OS: -1.50, -0.25 x 180
OS: add +1.00
Thanks and regards,
Francine
DelDoc 16 Jan 2004, 16:34
As an optometrist myself, I'm confident that I'm correct.
Suzanne 16 Jan 2004, 14:25
Fran,
I would like very much for my vision to improve to the point where the doctor would tell me that I don't need to wear glasses anymore. Is it possible?
Francine Eisner 15 Jan 2004, 05:43
You know, I read what he told me again, and you just may be right. Got to ask again...
Cheers,
Fran
Francine Eisner 15 Jan 2004, 05:40
I don't know if this is true, as I was told what I posted by an optometrist.
Fran
DelDoc 15 Jan 2004, 05:06
Actually, only half the cylinder power is added to the sphere to calculate the "effective power" (a.k.a. spherical equivalent) of a lens.
Francine Eisner 14 Jan 2004, 16:43
Excuse me, Suzanne, I made some inquiries and the minus sign in front of the cylinder correction is just something done by convention, if the Rx is given by an optometrist. An ophthalmologist commonly gives the Rx for cylinder in positive notation.
OD Plano X -.50 Cyl X 58 axis
OS +.50 X -.75 Cyl X 125 axis
The way this should be read:
OD: Sphere =0, Cylinder = -.50; You add 0 and -.50 to get the effective power of the lens.
=> the effective power of this lens is -.50
OS: Sphere = +.50, Cylinder = -.75
=> the effective power of this lens is -.25
=>You are very slightly nearsighted. You certainly could benefit from Vision Training, and now is the best time to start, before presbyopia sets in. Yes, I think you could reverse these numbers and not need glasses at all, if that is what you wish.
Cheers,
Francine
Francine Eisner 13 Jan 2004, 11:06
>Sooner or later as presbyopia sets in you will need to wear glasses sometimes, vision training notwithstanding.
Not necessarily. Suzanne is in her thirties now, and IMO has many more potential years without needing glasses, if she so chooses. I am 51, used to be +2.00 for reading and -1.50 for distance. I don't need either now, after a course of Vision Training. And my vision has remained consistent for about 6 years now.
Cheers,
Francine
lentifan 13 Jan 2004, 09:32
Suzanne, you don't say whether the reason you went to Lenscrafters was because you were unhappy with your vision for driving, television etc.
Without wishing to be deliberately controversial you could get a cheap pair of glasses to your Rx and see whether you think they help. If it does, you can then wear them as and when you feel comfortable and get a more expensive pair if you think you look better in them. Sooner or later as presbyopia sets in you will need to wear glasses sometimes, vision training notwithstanding.
12 Jan 2004, 20:57
Hi Suzanne,
OD Plano X -.50 Cyl X 58 axis
OS +.50 X -.75 Cyl X 125 axis
OD: Oculus Dexter or right eye
OS: Oculus Sinister or left eye
The first number following OD or OS refers to the power of the lens
in diopters. the larger the number, the stronger the lens. A minus
sign means myopia (nearsightedness). A plus sign indicates hyperopia or
far-sightedness. In the example, the left eye is worse than the
right eye, but only slightly. You have some hyperopia, or farsightedness. In other words you are having a little trouble with that eye seeing at near. This is also a symptom of presbyopia, and plus Rx is what is given for that condition as well. Your right eye is plano, or without prescription.
The next numbers indicated astigmatism. The -.50 and -.75 refer to the power of the cylinder, the 58 and 125 refer to the axis.
The way I interpret this, is that you are very slightly farsighted in your right eye, and not at all in your left. The cylinder means you have some astigmatism in both eyes. I am not an expert in Rx and probably there are lots of people here who actually are. But I believe your astigmatism is experienced at a distance, hence the minus Rx in cylinder.
Since you used to have perfect vision, or SEEMED to, in the past, my conclusion is that you are probably suffering from eyestrain and possibly some accommodation problems, which often are symptomatic of presbyopia, even at your age. In other words, you are well on your way toward needing more Rx and experiencing problems both reading and seeing in the distance. You most definitely could benefit from Vision Training, if that is your wish. This would slow down the progress of presbyopia and possibly arrest and reverse it. This was true in my case, and I had a much higher Rx than you do.
You can email me privately about this if you want.
Best regards,
Francine
francine_eisner@yahoo.com
Suzanne 12 Jan 2004, 19:10
Francine,
I went to Lenscrafters a couple of weeks ago and they prescribed the following for driving and television, etc... My vision a year ago at my physcial was 20/20 in both eyes and I probably could have read further had they let me.
OD Plano X -.50 Cyl X 58 axis
OS +.50 X -.75 Cyl X 125 axis
Can you explain my prescription? Would vision training help? I am in my 30's.
Francine Eisner 06 Jan 2004, 09:37
I think you already know how to do this. It's not something I'm willing to get involved in.
Fran
06 Jan 2004, 00:33
How about vision training to INCREASE myopia and/or presbyopia? Some people here would be into that.
Francine Eisner 05 Jan 2004, 18:12
Dear Tod,
Vision Training can improve, reverse, or cure all sorts of vision problems. It is very effective, and its usefulness has been confirmed by the American Optometric Association. I myself was able to completely arrest my presbyopia, among other things. and reverse it to a substantial degree. My near point of accommodation is now about 8 inches, which is normal for a person much younger than 51, which is my chronological age. I don't need glasses for seeing at a distance, either.
Vision training can arrest the progress of myopia and knock at least a few diopters off your Rx. There is so much that it can do for people.
If you are interested in learning more, read through my postings on this thread and the Vision thread, and follow the links.
Cheers,
Francine
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/focus_on_vision_training/
Fran
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/focus_on_vision_training/
Tod 05 Jan 2004, 17:52
what does this vision training stuff have to offer?
Francine Eisner 05 Jan 2004, 09:38
Well, Doc, I think you succeeded, ROTFL...
Cheers,
Francine
Daffy Quack, MD way OD 05 Jan 2004, 06:09
Francine
Of course we all know what a misanthrop is. Miss Caldonia Anthrop is still listed in the Boston Social Register, as are all the members of New England's founding families. (Hey, I tried.)
Francine Eisner 04 Jan 2004, 23:08
Hehe...a little levity is very welcome here. I don't quite believe that you don't know what a misanthrope is, but maybe you just need a good online dictionary. I mostly use:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=arcane*1%2B0
If you want a bit of OT trivia: Spam (the luncheon meat) is very popular in the South Sea islands. Apparently, they are just a generation away from cannabilism, and spam reminds them in color and taste of what they are now missing...?!
BTW they used to force-feed us spam in Girl Scout Camp, and I hated it so much I lost 6 pounds in two weeks, and I had only weighed 86 pounds to begin with.
Go figure...
Cheers,
Fran
guest2 04 Jan 2004, 22:36
MISANTHROPES?
Francine, please enlighten me. I couldn't find the word in the dictionary, but I have a feeling that I've just been insulted by you...
guest 04 Jan 2004, 19:35
I like Spam! ....once you get it out of the can, it's pretty tasty!
Francine Eisner 04 Jan 2004, 15:47
Spam IS unwanted email, by definition.
Posting about a vision-related subject on a bulletin board about vision & Rx is not prohibited or unwanted. Posting about a vision improvement workshop here is not even OT. If it were, the owner of this board would list it under prohibitions. Flaming is the only thing he HAS prohibited.
Posting about something that one or several group members find uninteresting or irrelevant is not equivalent to spamming.
Calling someone a spammer is making a personal attack. Making a personal attack against a group member is flaming, by definition. Now, who is breaking the rules here?
This are my final words on the subject, as I CERTAINLY have better things to do.
End of story.
Francine
Francine Eisner 04 Jan 2004, 15:36
It takes two people to make an argument?
Not really. It takes ONE to START an argument. It feels lousy to be attacked gratuitously. It feels better to defend ones' self.
And regardless of your point of view, you have to consider who started the insults. Calling someone a spammer is certainly an insult. And if you don't think so, well... the guy who called me that DOES.
Frankly, I'm totally disinterested in the opinionsof anyone who thinks it's just fine to insult me, and that I am somehow flawed for trying to defend myself. But I guess this is just great fun for some of you. Talk about having nothing better to do...?!
Cheers,
Francine
lentifan 04 Jan 2004, 15:13
Well, it takes two to make an argument.
Francine Eisner 04 Jan 2004, 14:41
Listen, "SPAMMER,"
>VT tips and tricks wanted......
>advertisement for doctor seminars >not wanted.....
This is really nonsense. VT works BEST when done with a VT Optometrist as advisor. It's just too difficult and complicated to do very well on your own. What works best is (Read and learn):
• Getting a complete eye exam from a VTOD
• Learning VT from your VTOD in once-a-week office visits
• Practicing "VT homework" every day, as set up by the VTOD, and inventing stuff to do yourself.
ALL of the above are necessary for optimum improvement. This doesn't mean that one can't noodle around with VT exercises at home. It just means that it won't work as well as the program described above. If it were, I would 'hang out a shingle' and start selling VT exercises off the internet, like the "See Clearly Method" does.
An analogous situation: There are "drugstore glasses" sold but they aren't very good for most people. This is because most people have some astigmatism or their two eyes are not exactly the same in ability. The drugstore glasses actually cause a lot of eyestrain or are just plain not up to the job. If they sufficed, no one would need to go to a vision professional to get their Rx. And being urged to go to a vision professional is not some sort of scam.
So the drugstore glasses, + 1.00 to +3.50, are just used by misanthropes who refuse to go to their eye doctor.
NOW do you understand?
And Ray Gottlieb and Sarah Cobb do not practice conventional VT. They mix it up with other methods that enhance the VT exercises. Dr Gottlieb is truly unique; there is just no one like him.
Furthermore...calling me a spammer turned this thread into an argument, which no one needs. It has all been so unnecessary.
Your notion that you are helpful is rather dubious at best. The only thing that is clear is that you like to argue.
Fran
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!! 04 Jan 2004, 13:18
This is driving me crazy! And I'm positive I'm not the only one. Francine has just as much right to post about vision training, events, and doctors as all you myopia-loving people have to post about ruining people's eyes. If you don't want to hear about improving your vision and doctors who do certain kinds of therapy, don't read the posts! It drives me crazy reading Eyescene fights about Francine, fakes, and anything else for that matter. I'm not picking sides here, I'm just saying that if one of you starts fighting and insulting people, the other one should just ignore it. That will be the fastest way to make it stop. Just calm down! Are these fights all you want to read about on Eyescene? If so, keep at it! If not, stop it!
Spammer among us??? 04 Jan 2004, 12:56
Francine,
Using proper netiquette (something you lack), I have moved this discussion to your VT thread rather then clutter up the vision thread)
Using your tactics....
spammer definition - [noun] someone who sends unwanted email (often in bulk) (do
a google search if you don't believe me)
Read the above carefully, and clue yourself in the word unwanted.
VT tips and tricks wanted......
advertisement for doctor seminars not wanted.....
Get it?
FYI, proper netiquette would have been instead of posting so many times, would be just put a simple link to a web page.
No web page??? Create the web page yourself, and put a simple link to it. No fuss, no muss.
Don't know how to create a web page??? Learn, not so hard to put one together....
"Moron"
trying to be helpful AND been on the newsgroups and web since 1987.
Ray Gottlieb Workshop 03 Jan 2004, 09:37
Hi guys,
To those of you who wish to wear glasses, or who have no choice in the matter, you have my blessing. There are, however, various means of eyesight improvement available and some of these really work.
Ray Gottlieb, OD, Phd, is a groundbreaker in the field of natural vision improvement, and he is highly respected by Optometrists and lay persons alike. He is giving a workshop on the effects of color and light therapy and other methods on vision improvement. This is an unprecedented event.
When: Thursday through Sunday, January 29, 30, 31, and February 1, 2004
Time: 9 am – 5 pm, check-in first day 8:30 am
Where: School for Self-Healing, 2218 48th Avenue, San Francisco
Tuition: $400 for all four days. One day, $130. Two days, $240. Three days, $330
Cayce presentation alone (Sunday, February 1, 3 pm – 5 pm), $15
Bring bag lunch or we’ll carpool to local restaurants
If possible, wear white or light colors on second day for group light experience
For more information, contact: Carol Gallup, email self-healing@cablespeed.com. Contact her by phone at School for Self-Healing, 415 665-9574 or fax, 415 665-1318. Or register online at http://www.nviconference.org
Francine 05 Dec 2003, 16:22
Another rude person. What...is your cat doing vision exercises?
Well, no one will find your posting, anyway.
Fran
lizzi 04 Dec 2003, 11:06
can anyone tell me cat deeley's rx just go to the musicians thread in this website click on the link. find the photos of cat wearing glasses and post back her rx.
Francine 19 Oct 2003, 07:33
Dear glfc,
Thanks so much for the kind words.
Warmest regards,
Francine
glfc 19 Oct 2003, 05:13
Francine, I have been catching up on the posts here. I really love your attitude and spirit! I know that there are plenty of people who are interested in vision training, and they will surely benefit from what you are doing. Keep up the good work!
Best wishes,
glfc
Francine 17 Oct 2003, 14:00
Hi. The link below is really great for looking up words, and it's absolutely free.
http://dir.yahoo.com/Reference/Dictionaries/
autodidact:
SYLLABICATION: au·to·di·dact
NOUN: A self-taught person.
ETYMOLOGY: From Greek autodidaktos, self-taught : auto-, auto- + didaktos, taught; see didactic.
OTHER FORMS: auto·di·dactic —ADJECTIVE
? 17 Oct 2003, 11:58
what is an autodidact?
Francine 16 Oct 2003, 12:22
Hi Blind Bat,
Actually, I found out about "Eyescene" from someone who posts on a vision improvement site. So I can't say I agree that the general subject matter will scare people away who are into vision improvement. It hasn't scared me away, either.
There is a lot of useful information here, and most people who are "into" vision improvement are autodidacts.
Thanks for your words of approval; it feels good to get them,
Cheers,
Fran
Francine 16 Oct 2003, 12:17
To whom it may concern:
Wurm set up this thread in response to a number of people asking for it. So no, I am not in the wrong place. YOU are posting on a thread called Vision Training, and ignoring the topic subject, so it really is quite obvious who is in the wrong place.
As far as my feeling like a vegetarian in a meat packing plant or anything like that...No, not at all. I am simply conveying useful information. Anyone is free to make use of it or not as they wish. Almost everyone with vision problems wears glasses. Some people accept this, others would like an alternative. I don't have a "beef" with the whole world, LOL.
Fran
Guest 16 Oct 2003, 08:32
Dear Petty,
when you wear weak plus lenses,
this means reading glasses, although you
don't need any, this means with them on you are kind of like a nearsighted, who can't see in distance so well.
Probably this won't go away, also when wearing them longer.
You should check the glasses your boss gave to you at an optician how strong they are. If they are more than +1 you should change the lenses to +0.75 or +1 not more. With that you should still see
a little worse but not too worse in distance. I guess at work you don't have to look far, Outside for driving you must take them off. Generally don't wear stronger glasses if you don't need them,
you could spoil your eyes, +0,75 if not needed should be really enough. Let them check.
best regards, guest
Blind Bat 16 Oct 2003, 06:30
Francine
Basically, what everyone is trying to say, is..... you are trying to promote vision training in the wrong place!
I think vision training is excellent - for those people who wish their eyesight was better and who detest wearing glasses.
If someone wanted to improve their eyesight and they happened to stumble across this site, they would probably read the latest postings and realise it was not for them.
Keep up your good work and maybe leave the vision training thread, but don't be surprised if it goes unnoticed for months at a time.
Bobby 16 Oct 2003, 03:40
Francine, keeping this thread don’t you feel like a vegetarian in a Club of Butchers?
Francine 15 Oct 2003, 20:29
Just in case anyone waltzes through who is wondering what Vision Training is about, this thread has for some reason gone off-topic.
VT is a method of vision improvement, about 100 years old, which is taught by about 1% of Optometrists. They have to take advanced training if they want to offer VT in their practice. Most Optometrists have as the bulk of their practice the usual eye exams and dispensing of eyeglasses and contact lenses. VT is for iconoclasts like me, who didn't want to accept using "compensatory" measures like glasses or contacts when middle age approached.
Vision Training really works, but it's not easy and its effectiveness depends a good deal on how disciplined you are.
Is this a pet subject of mine? You bet it is. VT worked so well for me, I am going back to school to become an optometrist, a task which will take me about 10 years.
Below are many sources of info about VT, if you find yourself interested.
Cheers,
Francine
AN INTRODUCTION TO VISION TRAINING
http://www.i-see.org/vtintro.html
"FOCUS ON VISION TRAINING" NEWSGROUP
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/focus_on_vision_training/
Francine 15 Oct 2003, 20:10
Well, let's see what the moderator thinks of your crass comments.
Carl 15 Oct 2003, 20:02
Francine, pooh on you.
Petty,
You can get readers at Walgreen that are bifocals so you can see clearly and a distance and the reading part will really make your work easier, and please your boss.
Francine 15 Oct 2003, 19:47
Why don't you guys move to the other threads. This is a thread about Vision Training, which is a method of eyesight improvement.
In other words, you are WAY off-topic.
Fran
GwGs 10 Oct 2003, 03:59
Dear Petty,
My fascination with glasses started when i was at school, about 16 years old i borrowed a friends glasses and wore them evening for a couple of hours for about 3 months and as i grew older i became more into glasses and got my own pairs with various prescriptions in.
I don't wear glasses as i have stated before as i can see everything as well as i want to but can accomodate anywhere from -5 to about +2 so the answer to your question is YES, if you wear them regularly for a period of time, your eyes will become use to focusing through (your) glasses.
Anon 09 Oct 2003, 15:38
Hi Petty. It's possible that if you wear the glasses enough that you will be able to see distances through them eventually. Are you hoping to wear the glasses all the time? Maybe you could get your eyes tested. You might find that you do actually need glasses.
Petty 01 Oct 2003, 05:29
Hi,
my name is Petty and I am 28 years old and I am working as a secretary at a lawyer.
Last month my new boss ask me to wear glasses at the office because he like to see his secretary in glasses. Then he gave me a pair I should try on.
I do but there are RX-lenses inside. He told me they are weak reading lenses and everyone can wear it.
It is no problem to read and to write, but in distance I could not see so well. I wear it now last month only in the office. Do you mean if I wear it all time I will see better in distance soon?
Francine 28 Aug 2003, 18:51
Hi Francine,
>I meant that the site mentioned >below is very incomplete in it's >presentation of what is available.
>The ancient and more >contemporary vision training and >acu-pressure and such is at least >nine times more elaborate than >what is shown there.
Cuopti
.......................
Any more info on Chinese Eye Exercises is welcome here. I have my own newsgroup about Vision Training, and in the group files are are list of "adjunct methods" that may be useful in addition to Optometric Vision Training. Chinese Eye Exercises, Yoga, etc are on the list.
VT is a "system," but it is more flexible than most vision improvement methods. The various VTODs I have met or corresponded with each have their own approach, which was based on their original training but many of them are rather creative. Therefore VT as a method is constantly evolving. I myself use(d) VT and added a few other things that I found useful. My own attitude is that one should use "whatever works." There are other vision improvement methods "out there" that insist that you should give up everything else and submit to the "Method." This seems like pure fundamentalist nonsense to me.
Anyway, sorry to be on a soapbox tonight. Please...if you have any more info about other vision improvement methods, please post links here. Or more details about Optometric Vision Training. You see, I am a layperson, although a rather educated one. I found VT very effective, and so I want to share this info with others. I don't claim to be a know-it-all on the subject: Far from it.
Cheers,
Fran
Cuopti 28 Aug 2003, 16:50
Hi Sue,
the ancient OR........
too your liking?
Cuopti
Sue 27 Aug 2003, 21:58
How is possible for anything to be ancient AND more contemporary?
Cuopti 27 Aug 2003, 16:44
Hi Francine,
I meant that the site mentioned below is very incomplete in it's presentation of
what is available.
The ancient and more contemporary vision training and acu-pressure and such is at least nine times more elaborate than what is shown there.
Cuopti
Francine 23 Aug 2003, 14:33
> 21 Aug 2003, 16:54
> well that is so incomplete.......
> just one tenth of the training we
> give our pts.
cuopti
????
What on earth are you talking about, cuopti???
Francine
cuopti 21 Aug 2003, 16:54
well that is so incomplete.......
just one tenth of the training we give our pts.
cuopti
Francine 20 Jul 2003, 20:30
Hi glfc,
I wish that flash website was in English. But here is another website describing Chinese eye exercises. Perhaps between these descriptions in English and the flash animation we'll have enough info to give these exercises a try.
http://doctoryourself.com/eye_exercises.html
Cheers,
Francine
Francine 19 Jul 2003, 18:02
Great...! I'm going to save all the info on the Chinese vision techniques and take a look at it after the weekend.
I'd like to go to China someday to give lectures on vision training, as I did in India. Maybe I can find a way to do this.
Cheers,
Francine
glfc 19 Jul 2003, 17:38
Hello Fran,
I found a Chinese eye exercise flash demonstration. It's exactly what we do at school. I hope it may be useful.
http://zhuzhu.hlgnet.com/zhuzhu/eyes.html
There's also a realplayer format video that I couldn't see for some reason. It popped up in the search so it might be of some relation.
http://www.beareyes.com/2/lib/200303/22/20030322172.htm
There are also some more descriptions on the process, but unfortunately they are in Chinese are pretty hard to translate. If your computer can display Chinese, then try this google search list. They're all basically about the same thing, but some of them are more detailed.
http://www.google.com/search?q=%E7%9C%BC%E4%BF%9D%E5%81%A5%E6%93%8D&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=zh-CN&lr=
Chinese medicine and healing methods can be really amazing sometimes. I think Western people should get to know more about it. But I'm sure both traditional Chinese and Western medical techniques have their great advantages. Hospitals in China apply a combination of Chinese and Western medical techniques for ideal treatment.
I also think that the Chinese people will greatly benefit from your vision training technique.
Best Wishes,
glfc
Francine 29 Jun 2003, 22:26
Hi glfc,
I have heard of a form of Chinese massage for vision improvement, and I think this is what you are describing. It is very good to promote circulation in the eye area. I do, however, think that comprehensive eye exams (the 21-point test) should also be given yearly to school children, as well as Vision Training. We have calisthenics for the rest of the body, why not for the eyes?
One of my colleagues is now distributing a vision training computer program to the schools in California for that purpose. She has also helped to pass legislation in some states requiring very complete eye tests for children.
I hope that this will be done soon in China as well. China and Japan have a very high incidence of myopia, probably due both to genetic susceptibility and to the intense nearwork that is necessary to succeed academically. One of my friends in Japan has told me he thinks Chinese and Japanese characters are harder to read than Roman (English) script and this is therefore an added stress on the eyes.
I'd like to see Vision Training done in China also. I don't think it exists there yet. I taught some people in India some vision training exercises and they found them very useful. Vision Training is very new in India as well. There are only 3 or 4 Vision-Training Optometrists in India, where there are a billion people.
I'd like to find out more about your eye circulation exercises. I've copied your posting and I will look for more information on the internet. Please do let me know if you find something.
You may find this surprising, but I live in New York and I only go to a Chinese doctor who practices Traditional Chinese Medicine. I have found Chinese herbal medicine to be much more useful than Western medicine. Fortunately we have a large Chinatown near where I live so I was able to find a good doctor there. I also get acupuncture, as I did recently for muscle spasms in my back. I'm basically a healthy person, and his treatment helps to keep me healthy.
Our cultures have alot to learn from eachtother, I think. I hope you join my group and try out the Vision Training exercises as well. If you do so, please introduce yourself. We would love to have you there.
Cheers,
Francine
glfc 29 Jun 2003, 05:24
Hello Fran
I¡¯m located in Guangzhou, a city in the southern part of China. I have just visited your site, and have found it very interesting and informative.
The eye exercises that we do in school consists of 4 parts. It is widely used in schools here. I think it¡¯s a little based on Chinese acupuncture, massage or something. It¡¯s supposed to promote blood circulation and help the eyes relax. I don't think it's exactly a type of vision training.
But I¡¯ll try by best to describe it. The music goes on and a nice voice counts 8 beats 8 times, like 12345678, 22345678, 32345678, until 82345678 for each part.
In the first part, We put both of our hands above our eyebrows, exerting pressure with the fingertips on a specific spot. (The fingers of each hand are together, and the thumb-tip is in contact with the index-tip) We rotate (massage) it along with the music.
The second part is done with one hand. You squeeze the bridge of the nose (The part between the two eyes), and pull it up and down along with the music.
In the third part, you anchor both thumbs on the two sides of the chin (lower jaw), and put your index on a spot next to the cheekbone. Then you rotate (massage) it along with the music.
In the fourth and last part, you anchor both thumbs on the temple, and use the bottom joint of both indexes to massage the part just above and below the eye outwards.
I¡¯m sorry I can¡¯t describe it clearly, as my English vocabulary is limited. I¡¯ll try to find a demonstration video somewhere on the internet.
Francine 18 Jun 2003, 20:15
Dear Bob,
There are a number of methods used for myopia reduction but I don't believe that many VTODs use Trachtman's myopter. It is not a good idea to try to correct your own myopia without getting a complete eye exam from a VTOD, BTW. This is a much more extensive series of tests than you will get from a regular OD or Ophthalmologist.The reason a diagnostic exam is important is that not all myopes have the same visin problems. Some have convergence and accommodation problems at near, and this was the original trigger for their myopia. Others become exophoric (overdivergence) when they attempt to see clearly at a distance. There are many variations.
IMO the best way to improve your vision whether you have myopia, presbyopia, etc. is to go to a VTOD and then get creative with your home practices, which is what I did. A VTOD will likely work on your convergence and accommodation, as well as the ability to switch from near to far. Many VTODs believe that eyeballs dont' actually elongate unless myopia is very advanced.
Some people, pilots mostly, have used the "plus lens method" to improve their myopia. I believe that it works very well for some people. You might try a combination of methods, such as VT, plus lens, and Bates, which creates a state of relaxation that is always helpful for vision improvement.
If you'd like more info about any of these methods you can email me privately. Also feel free to take a look at my Yahoo Group on Vision Training, and my website.
Cheers,
Francine
feisner@earthlink.net
Focus On...Vision Training Yahoo Newsgroup
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/focus_on_vision_training/
Fran's Vision Training Home Page
http://home.earthlink.net/~feisner/index.html
Bob W 18 Jun 2003, 10:49
Hi All
I went in to the VTOD archives to see what I could see. The way to use those, I think, is to search using a subject. I did some searches based on "reduce myopia", and found some interesting results.
I came across references to an interesting biofeedback instrument, apparently from the '70's, probably cost at a minimum of a few thousand $'s. Apparently released a sound when accurate focus was achieved at somewhat beyond the far point of focus, as far as I can make out. A Dr. Trachtman, a published researcher, was behind that.
Some one else pointed out that perhaps the same effect could be created by using a "Schur-Mark BO 8-1 card". This sounds like a hand Snellen card or some other focusing card. Maybe some OD on this site could fill us in. I tried to search for a reference with no luck. It makes sense, because the focusing itself would provide the necessary feedback needed to reinforce the neuro system. That would be a whole lot less expensive.
More recently, some drug related to atropine was tested that didn't affect the ciliary muscles directly, but still unknown what it does. Doesn't sound promising.
No large number of medical type Double Blind Crossover trials on anything, except the drug would have to go through that for approval, and it sounds like that one died.
Hope someone else can shed some light on some of this, or go through the archives with other searches.
Best regards, Bob W.
Francine 10 Jun 2003, 21:26
I would like to recommend to anyone interested in Vision Training that they read the VTOD-L list. These folks know a heck of lot more than I do, as they are the professionals in the field
http://listserv.indiana.edu/archives/vtod-l.html
Have fun...! It's very interesting reading...
Cheers,
Fran
Francine 01 Jun 2003, 22:18
OTHER METHODS OF VISION TRAINING, REGARDING AMBLYOPIA IN PARTICULAR...
Once again I am cross-posting info from my own group, "Focus On Vision Training."
From: "Francine" <feisner@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun May 18, 2003 12:45 am
Subject: Other Methods of Vision Training...Re: Amblyopia in particular
Hi Folks,
You know how I am always trying to get you guys to go to a Vision -Training Optometrist? Well, there's a good reason why I do! Vision Training is a very complicated affair, and while I am a good coach, I simply don't have the knowledge of a VTOD at this point.
I am posting the following to show you guys just how complicated Vision Training can be. "Gus" is a seasoned VTOD, who has been in practice about 50 years. The following is his description of a rather unconventional method of treating amblyopia, or lazy eye. You probably know that this condition,
especially in children, is usually treated by both Ophthalmologists and VTODs by patching the GOOD eye. VTODs use vision training along with the patching, and some don't patch at all. But the following statement involves patching the AMBLYOPIC, or WEAK eye. The SUPPRESSED eye. Why is this done? Apparently, the patching is done by only covering the central portion of the eye, and the strategy is to uncover when training ONLY, I believe...
Anyway, read "Gus's" statement, and you will see why you will probably do better at improving your vision by consulting an expert, and using this group just as a place of support. A really good VTOD will try one method, and if it doesn't seem to be working he will have lots of other methods "up his sleeve."
Read on...
Cheers,
Francine
....................
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 21:31:09 EDT
Sender: Vision Therapy OD's <
From: Constantine Forkiotis (Gus)
Subject: EYE PATCHING?
To All; Many years ago during our Gesell monthly Study Group we had extensive discussions on eye patching/occlussion. We had reasoned that the many year of occluding the good eye had poor results in progress or success for the Amblyopia eye. There is no law or rule that claims it must work. Further more any purposeful reduction or restriction in function and performance for any body part does have a direct direction of atrophy to some degree. Our reasoning evolved that the Amblyopia eye be the
one that was to be occluded 3 to 4 times a day both eyes were closed while the patch was moved to the good eye. Thus, the Amblyopia eye was exposed to light with instructions to perform specific procedures, as smooth pursuits, eye hand tasks, hand use on the same side as the open eye, etc.The eye are then closed and the patch returned to the Amblyopia eye. The Amblyopia eye was therefore opened only under conditions of instruction. Uncovering the Amblyopia eye and exposing the eye and input to the brain created after images that had to be dealt
with to varying degrees as soon as the patch was returned to the eye.
The procedure is/was quite effective with active well involved parents which are not many in number.
My personal experience has resulted in greater success in teaching the patient how to use 3/4 inch Translucent Scotch Tape. With Amblyopia we are more concerned with the central vision and visual acuity and the fovea/macula regions [central part of the retina]. Yet the total patching reduces the efficiency of
the peripheral retina which is involved with motion and movement and body balance. Therefore for better and faster results I have instructed that the 3/4 inch scotch tape be placed down the center of the lens guiding continued use of the
peripheral retinal elements while alternating the use of the fovea of each eye. The same rule applies. When changing from the one eye to the other always close both eyes while changing the tape to the opposite eye to capitalize on the after image affects.
[In such cases] It is rare to have to listen to the raging old time battles between parents and the child who is absolutely not willing to condone the discomfort of total eye patching. In cases where eyeglasses or distance Rx was not involved we used a plain eyeglass frame with the tape added in the center as described above. The fastest result was in an adult patient vying for an occupation requiring 20/20 and binocular organization. Within 6 weeks he was on the way. I'd be a millionaire if I could effect that progress with every patient.
– gus
**Note: [...] bracketed statements added for clarification.
– Fran
Francine 28 May 2003, 06:19
Here's a nice simple intro to the Vision Training, produced by Indiana University:
http://www.indiana.edu/~v755/beh/sld001.htm
Cheers,
Francine
Francine 26 May 2003, 21:13
Sorry about the (previous) posting looking so scewy. I have no idea WHY this happens. Maybe someone else has a clue...
Fran
Francine 26 May 2003, 09:23
Well, thanks for putting this in as a separate category. As my first venture, I am going to cross-post from my own group, "Focus On...Vision Training." Here goes:
Date: Mon May 26, 2003 12:07 pm
Subject: The benefits of EXERCISE on vision improvement...
Hi guys,
Awhile ago someone posted that belly-rubbing is good for vision
improvement, and I objected to that posting being on this [my] group, as I doubt it's usefulness. I still have doubts about belly-rubbing, BUT:
There ARE other things one can do to enhance the effects of doing vision exercises, and regular physical exercise in general is one of them. I noticed very early on that my home training sessions went better if I had just come from the gym. So whenever I could, I did things to improve my metabolism. Anything that gets the circulation up is good: Walking, aerobics, weight-lifting, running, etc. I used to get off at the wrong subway stop on purpose, so that I had to walk about a mile to my VTOD's office. My office practice sessions went very well on the days that I took that walk. Below is a posting from a VTOD on a forum they
frequent. And some of them literally make their offices an exercise gym...! See below:
Quoted from VTOD list:
"Especially in the early sessions that are so developmentally heavy, I found that the week at home of doing feet only jumping jacks,long swings, marching, skipping or jumping rope starting at the level that just challenges them in the office can work miracles! The children benefit neurologically from gross motor
and bilateral integration activities before we ever start on binocular coordination activities, they feel a sense of accomplishment that spurs them on for therapy, and the parents
see huge changes right away which is nice when they have just
paid me $$$$."
BTW I have mentioned that I employed some Bates exercises in
my training as well. This was my own choice, not that of my VTODs. I believe that sunning improved the circulation around my eyes and that this was the reason why it is helpful.
Cheers,
Francine